Interview with Katherine Jegede – Writer, Television Host, Expert on Neville Goddard || EP 140

“According to Neville, there is only one power in the universe out of which all things emanate. Not a ‘good’ source and a separate ‘evil’ one, but one universal source bending in obedience to the creative will of men and women everywhere. The how remains a mystery; but this eternal fact is nonetheless true. As soon as I was able to feel and accept this to be true, I was free.” –Katherine Jegede

Growing up in London, Katherine Jegede was always searching for a philosophy to make sense of life. When she found the mind-as-creator philosophy of Neville Goddard, she thought she had found it. Falling victim to a terrible crime, however, caused Jegede to rethink everything she thought she knew. Rather than abandoning Neville’s ideas, however, she discovered within them a new source of strength and fortitude. She not only rebounded from her crisis, but also used Neville’s creative-mind principles to become a television presenter, something she had never before imagined possible.

Katherine Jegede is a British television presenter and author with a background in science. She was first introduced to metaphysics as a teenager by her mother, a former yoga teacher and education specialist. She developed a penetrating and enduring fondness for the self-empowering teachings of Neville Goddard, and remains just as steadfastly devoted to spreading his message today. After completing her studies, Katherine moved to Switzerland to work at the World Health Organization, developing educational resources for rural communities in Sub-Saharan Africa. In addition to her academic science career, Katherine has worked with the BBC Science Unit and BBC Radio Oxford, and served as news editor of the international journal Africa Health, for whom she has conducted research trips, helping set up a learning resources and study center at one of Nigeria’s forefront teaching hospitals. She has been published in the internationally acclaimed science journal, Nature. Katherine has also presented two science series aimed at young adults for Channel 4 in the UK, earning a BAFTA nomination.

It was a genuine pleasure to interview Katherine. We talked about her journey, her love of Neville Goddard, finding a specific person, her favorite technique and lots more.

You can get her book Infinite Possibilities: How to use the ideas of Neville Goddard to create the life you want here

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Welcome to the reality revolution. I’m incredibly excited to have Kate jaggedy. It’s Kate jaggy, right? Yeah, that’s good. Kate’s best preferred. Kate jaggedy is a British television host and author of a fantastic book with a background in science. She was first introduced to metaphysics as a teenager and by her mother, a former yoga teacher and education specialist. She developed a penetrating and enduring fondness for the self-empowering teachings of Neville Goddard and remained steadfastly devoted to spreading his message to this day. After completing her studies, Kate moved to Switzerland to work at the world health organization developing educational resources for rural communities in Subsaharan Africa. In addition to her academics science career, Kate has worked with the BBC science unit and BBC radio Oxford and served as news editor of the international journal of African health for which she conducted research trips, helping set up a learning resource and study center at one of Nigeria’s forefront teaching hospitals. He’s been published in internationally acclaimed science journal nature. Haight is also hosted two science series aimed at young adults for channel four in the U K earning a BAFTA nomination. I’m honored to have you here. I’m so excited. I’m excited to be with you. So I, I, you know, when I, when I just, I just read your book and I really love the beginning of it. You tell a lot of your own personal story and the journey that you had gone on to discover or rediscover Neville Goddard as people that have followed my podcast. A lot of my podcasts dealt with law of attraction and reality trend surfing. And recently I’ve started really focusing on novel garter for a lot of people that go on this journey. People always end up coming back to noble garter because his message was so pure and perfect and profound in there so much that he, he, uh, there’s so much that he spoke about. So it is a topic that I really wanted to go into detail and just me going over these lectures is not enough. It’s really nice to have an expert, somebody that’s applied these teachings and seeing results in their everyday life. So welcome Kate. Tell me how’s it going today? Thank you Brian. I’m so happy to be with you. It’s going very well. I’m, I’m busy. But you know, I’m always excited to talk to people at UW because it, it keeps me flowing, you know, it kinda keeps me inspired. So in my, my day job, um, it’s a lot to do with policy and government issues and social issues going on right now, right? Yes. So this is a great time to sort of work in the field of sort of policy advice and all of that. But this, this is something that what I really love about what I do is that my mentor in the house of Lords in the UK parliament has been really supportive of me actually. Um, having this background in level’s teachings and using that to share, to give insight into things that affect people on a day, day basis. And it’s not very often that that happens. So I consider myself really blessed to be able to do that. I mean I don’t sit them down and talk about Neville per se, but I am very much aware of the fact that sometimes I go to a meeting and I’m not as prepared or I’m aware that I’m not as school to some of the people in the room, but I can just be open to new ideas and I leave people with their jaws hanging open. You know, how we hadn’t thought about it that way. And this is what I really get excited about. This whole metaphysical outlook. Absolutely. I think you and I are a mirror because I feel the same way. It’s exciting. The interesting thing about Neville, I mean there’s a huge field of literature that deals with creating realities and Bob attraction. I mean there’s thousands of books and a lot of people that start on this journey don’t start with novel. And then when they get to Neville, there’s some there. For some people it’s triggering cause he’s mentioning Bible phrases and they don’t understand. And so it seems like for many people, they have to come to it from a different place. Tell us your journey and how you discovered or rediscovered Neville Goddard and chose to, to become more well versed in his teachings. Yeah, I mean, devil was very much a part of my life growing up. So before I came on the scene, my mother was already a student of his. And so I always, I love to share this story that, you know, you know, library at home, we had all the classic children’s stories, but we also had Nevels books on the shelves as well, denied Ken and all of these other philosophers and ideas. So it’s something we grew up with. My mom thought nothing of, you know, so we go to church on Sunday morning when we get home, when we’re around the dinner table, she’s reading to us and we’re young kids. We don’t know what she’s talking about, but we became so familiarized with the language. It was very much a part of us growing up. And my mother was somebody who, um, always encouraged us to, to use this, uh, aspect of ourselves. She called it the greater part of ourselves. If you wanted something, you didn’t just say you wanted it, she would say, can you really feel yourself having it? And that was so normal. So for me, you as children, you think that what your parents do, everyone’s parents are doing right. So you’re, you’re not sure. You’re not sort of aware that this is not the norm for everybody. But that is really where it first began. I think as a teenager I began to explore the ideas myself because I was someone who was very much, um, preferred my own company to the companies of others for one reason or another. And so I spent a lot of time reading as a teenager and I loved his work. At first I found it a little bit jarring. It didn’t sort of mesh with what we were hearing at church and I didn’t like the way in which it challenged me, but, and so I, I rejected it at one point. I kind of thought this is really offensive. I want to be part of the youth team at church. Yeah. You know, I want it to be, I was in the choir. I was a church organist. I, I wanted to really do the religion thing and have that done. It was a priest was a former [inaudible] no. Well, so he was raised in the, the, um, uh, Jewish religion. My father was wealthy when he got married to my mom. He tried to, you know, embrace Christianity in the traditional sense. He became an elder in the church that we were in. But, um, he went back to, um, the Jewish faith after we left the church as a family. Um, it wasn’t a terrible, you know, thing with no one left under a cloud. It was just this kind of self discovery that Neville says is actually inevitable in everyone. So we can go, we, we arrive at this, uh, what we’re going to talk about today, um, through different routes. But for me it was very much just being on my own with the ideas, turning them over in my mind and actually experimenting with them. I think I wanted to prove novel wrong in the beginning. Right. And I found it was changing me as a person, which really excited me. So the, the book, I don’t think I mentioned the title is infinite possibility. How do you use the ideas of Neville Goddard to create the life you want? So when you did research for this book, something I’m fascinated by that is still shrouded in mystery is Neville’s background. Like [inaudible] there’s so much information about what Neville said and stuff, but he, it’s all we have is really what he talked about. And then some other references. Did you find any information about Neville and where he’d come from and some other stuff we might not have heard about? It’s really interesting. I did a lot of research on level just starting with what I had online and, and stuff that my mother had, um, books and things that she had. Um, but it was really strange how I sort of came to know him and I felt that I knew him energetically, not just knew him as a character that existed at time and space. And I think Mitch Horwitz, who so many people know of has been fantastic as an historian in getting that kind of physical data that we all seem to really need before we can sink our teeth into something. So he was really instrumental in terms of bringing together stuff about Neville’s military career and and verifying some of the facts that Neville spoke about when he was honorably discharged from the army and, and, and Mitch, I think as part of his own journey, he needed to know that this stuff could be verified and that there was some sort of physical record. So there are records of where he lived in the States when King from, and even the other day we found out much to our delight that some brands, household brands that we use, Island food products and other like household cleaning products we’re brands produced by his family in Barbados. They were the manufacturers and the jewelry that’s related to this. So much of, there’s a real record of him and I think that the human side of Neville makes it very, very exciting. People through writing the book have reached out to me on Facebook to show me the pictures and things that they’ve collected over the years and, and it’s been absolutely tremendous. I’ve been kind of got my little shoe box full of trinkets and things, but you know, Neville is was so real to me, all of that. That was just really nice to kind of accumulate those. Anything unusual that we might not have heard about from his past that you, that you and your in your study, I don’t know how many people are aware of the fact that you know, obviously he grew up in Barbados. He was born there and grew up there. He was born in 1905 when he was, I think seven or eight. Two people spoke to him. One, a woman who I believe was a servant of the family and one was a man known as the prophet, which interestingly never said he was the, the furthest thing you would think from if you thought about somebody who was spiritual and Holy, I think he drank or something like that. So it’s not somebody you would traditionally believe was a Holy man. But these two people spoke to him about the work that he was going to do. And I think that the made in the family, I think she was a native of Barbados, said to the mother, be very careful of this guy. You know, of this child. He has a gift. He’s going to do something remarkable in the world. And then the prophet again spoke to [inaudible] about what his ministry was going to be. He had ambitions to be a dancer and to be a celebrity. And he speaks in one of his lectures quite fondly about this hunger for fame that we all possess, right? Um, but it’s something that gets transmuted into a desire to glorify the father as he affectionately speaks of creative energy or God. For some people, they don’t like the term God. I personally love the term God. So you know, people should just forgive me and allow me to use it in this podcast, but he’s to replace. Yeah. But it’s, it’s, it means a lot to me. Um, but you know, I have no problem with people, you know, take offense or don’t like the word, but I’m using it because of what it means to me. Right. So this God the creator, the what Neville describes as absolute causation, which, um, uh, I was lucky enough to speak to a physicist, uh, last year when I was in the States and he was talking about this. Yeah. They’re really interested to know about the underpinnings of even the smallest elements of creation. But not to digress too far. Um, Brian, so, so Neville talks about, um, his ambition and his desire to be a successful actor and dancer in a, a known personality was replaced by this work for God. And he said that we don’t volunteer for it. That this thing that happens, this awakening is involuntary. And I don’t know if many people are aware of that. That resonates with me. I understand. I get that. So I’m fascinated also before we get into some of his stuff by Abdula this mysterious figure that came along and seem to kind of teach him and kind of fill out some of the stuff that he taught. What do we know about Abdula? How much do we really know about him in relation to, so Neville said that Abdullah was the only person that he would describe as his teacher. He described him as an Ethiopian. He said, um, quite sweetly. I thought of though some people kind of, you said that he was as black as the ACE of spades. You know, he used to dress himself in white linen with his head wrapped in this white turban. I guess that contrast really made him something that people couldn’t ignore. Um, there isn’t that much on record about Abdullah strangely, which is something that I would love to look into when I get some time. But we do know that there are other students of hairs. Now, interestingly enough, Joseph Murphy or famous Christian scientists, which was also a student of Abdullah, but it is said that, um, there was a lot of purging of, of Abdullah from his notes by his estate after he his death. I’m not entirely sure. I don’t want us to sort of jump to, Oh, the race issue or whatever. I have no idea why or if that’s even true, but we do know someone sent a tight letter, which they say is authentic. I haven’t had time to read it yet in which Joseph Murphy is writing to a friend about this Abdullah. So we know that he lived in New York in the apartment that belonged to I think the son of the secretary of state of the time. So he was somebody who was highly regarded regarded by, you know, the higher ups in American society. He was someone that Neville said was sought out by, by people who were very, very important and wealthy, and they were spellbound by his, his wisdom and his information. Neville said that Abdullah was an expert in the law. I guess some people would call that the law of attraction. Or though that’s not strictly what Neville is describing, it’s more the law of assumption, which is slightly different. And it’s about training oneself to take on the consciousness of something rather than putting things towards you. Okay. So he said that Abdullah taught him the law and was almost imputed in his teachings, quite a brusque and aggressive because he wanted never to just get the message. This is not, he said Abdullah taught him that there was no such thing as a little pregnancy. It’s not, I’m getting there, I’m getting there. You’re either doing it or you’re not doing it. And I think that that’s the kind of teacher you need. That’s the kind of teacher I try to be when people write to me saying, Oh, I have this problem, I’ve got this problem, or this isn’t working out. And they say, look, this is what you need to do. Just do it. And he’d come back and, Oh, it’s getting there. No, it’s either it or it’s not it. And I think that, um, Neville really attribute his success in putting these techniques into effect and measurable effect because of the way that Abdula taught him. So for those who don’t know, he was, um, someone who loved the opera opera and he also loved Brandy and ice cream. But you know, I’ve mentioned these things because it makes them more human, makes them more tangible, knowing the kind of things that they like to do. Yeah. So there’s, the amazing thing is when you really start looking into it, there’s all, of course all the books, but so many lectures, so many great lectures. First of all, would you, a favorite lecture that, that you is, is one that really is your, I know it’s pretty hard to do, but like a number one, that’s your GoTo favorite of all of them. Yes. I think it’s the seven eyes of God and I, the reason why I chose that one is because it really gets to grips with a lot of the mysticism side of it. So when I first started with Neville’s work, it was really about learning these techniques and getting really excited about the fact that you could transform your lived experience and make it what you want to be. And then he spoke about the fact that after you really kind of satisfied yourself or satisfy your curiosity relative to that, you began to use, one would begin to hunger after more spiritual things. And it brought so much of what I was beginning to feel about the world to feel about my human brethren to feel about my role in creation. It just really brought it into perspective and explained so much of what I felt was happening in my own life. The way I was transitioning, the way that things that were once important to me were no longer important. The way that I’m able to relate to people and how they relate to me and so on and, and I think, yeah, the seven eyes of God, this is absolutely tremendous. And he says, there’s a line in there and it says for, I was told not to hold one secret back. I mean, when I read that line, it just melts me. Just the thought that there’s this source of inspiration that’s available to us as human beings and we can begin to have some of those more pertinent questions about life answered his, his use of words is almost Shakespearian. I just, when I, when I read some of it, I’m always just, I taken it back even without the teaching, his, just his language and the way that he would speak. So going further from that, so we, we, we, one of the greatest things that you talk about in the book is that imagination is, it’s a question that you ask. It’s first of all, it’s a quick, is imagination God and what a profound and wonderful idea if you’re not really understanding what God is to, to put to say that imagination has got, I wanted you to explain that a little bit better in the way. Right? So we’ve been taught that imagination is an aspect of our, I guess neurophysiological process, the normal aspect of mind and psychologists them say themselves say that they can’t really explain the human Mark mind. They have ways of explaining the physical brain and the way it functions and all of that, but they really haven’t. They’re not satisfied or I don’t think that we’ve reached any sort of consensus on what mind really is. But Neville says that if you think about anything in existence before it becomes a thing, it is first a thought and imagination is the source, the, the nothingness, the, if you think about it, the atoms and molecules or whatever on certain book using very technical language here. But if you think about all anything that exists being broken down its constituent parts, there is something from which those constituent parts emerge. And he’s saying that that his imagination, the baseline source or absolute causation of all that is. So we’ve been taught that it’s our ability to perceive things that aren’t physically real yet. That’s what we understand imagination to be. And people think, Oh, in my imagination this happens or that happens. But it’s saying that it is actually the substance that we call God and it is a part of us. Well rather we, you and I, Brian, you said there are a part of it where just taken on shakes. If you think about anything being made, anything that exists, sorry being made of the same stuff at its most fundamental level, it takes on a shape. It takes on an arrangement. It’s physic. Physicists will tell you about the way electrons and atoms and all of that come together to form physical substances. And the same thing for you and I, we are atoms, molecules, whatever you want to call it, made into a shape. It’s, it’s absolutely mind blowing when you think about what a human being is and what it can do. But substantively, we are still that same source substance. Even though we’ve been organized into these fantastic machines called human beings, we are still of that substance and that is what God is. So if we understand that and we, if we understand its language and its culture, we can begin to relate to it in a way that’s meaningful for us and can answer the questions of our own existence. I mean, I think we’ve come to the point where we know that the stuff that’s happening in our mind, our mind could not create that. I mean that our mind is not, if you think that our little tiny brain is creating these incredible images that when we imagine something then think again. There’s no way. So it’s coming from somewhere else. That’s the first thing. That’s a big realization. So, uh, so when you, so let’s go dive a little deeper. When you go into the Neville Goddard community, I think in some ways there’s some misunderstandings of his teachings. And the first thing that I really resonated with you when you, when you talked about you had an event happen to you, it was a, and then you had been living strictly under the concepts of Neville Goddard and you felt like it was like you blamed him for it. Like if there was that and I had something similar, like I was like, what did I do? This is I blame, you know, what did I do? And there was, I think you went through a little bit of spiritual lesson in the an understanding what had happened and I wanted you to talk a little bit about that. Yeah. So when I was a young person, obviously I people know I was a victim of a crime and it was devastating and it caused my life to stop because all of a sudden I felt really unsafe and I felt betrayed. And coming from a place where you feel you’re in control of what’s happening to you and then being transported to a space where you have complete, you have zero control over what was happening was very, very confusing. And I liked that statement that you made that there’s a lot of misunderstanding. I think that’s what happened to me the first time around. I misunderstood. So I was cherry picking the bits that appeal to me and I wasn’t considering anything about my concept of self. That was something that I completely ignored, if you like. So, even though I was having success with the techniques and I could apply the techniques, and I was pretty good at doing all of that, I wasn’t considering what I was saying was true of me. And underpinning all of the things that I was going through was this idea that I was, um, a potential victim. And it’s, people find that a little bit difficult to take because they say, well, it sounds like you’re blaming someone. It’s not about blame. It’s just the way things are. For example, if I were to throw something out of my bedroom window, it would land on the ground because there’s a law of gravity. There’s going to be an outcome to something. So if I had a concept of myself that was different to the one I had at the time, I may have had a different experience. I want to say I will have had it. I’m just trying to think about your listeners. I’m not going to be too hard hitting. Right. So it was very, very difficult. I thought that it was, um, I didn’t know about some of the esoteric lessons that I’ve come to learn about our interactions with others and the way in which our interactions with others do two things for us. They either give us an opportunity to challenge what we believe of our, of ourselves to really test that we really are being honest when we say we believe something of ourselves and they either or they either just confirm that you are who you say you are. So for example, if I can just digress for a moment, if you believe yourself to be a kind, loving person, you’re going to meet people who reflect that back to you, right? You’re also gonna meet people that really give you an opportunity to check in on whether you are kind, because they are going to be the opposite of that. And I didn’t know all of those things happen. And so what I had to do was just strip back, just completely deconstruct what I thought. I knew what I thought. I understood the path that I was going down with this work and start from the beginning and really read it line by line and I did that. You know, I had the sources and Bible concordance is and Bibles and everything around the notebook upon notebook. Funnily enough, we went to our storage unit the other day. I couldn’t believe how many notebooks, right? Oh my goodness. Just checking in and checking in and testing and experimenting. And then I realized that it’s not sort of replacing one religion for another or one, one set of ideas for another. It’s about trans transformation of the soul, the evolution of your psyche. This is what Neville’s work is about. And I came to that inevitable point that he described that we all come to this, that we are God, and that there is nothing inevitable about our experience. Our experience really is in our own hands. And that was really difficult for me. Neville says that man’s invisible nightmare is taking responsibility for his day to day lived experience. And I, I wasn’t looking at his work like that. I really was looking at it as if I did what he said, all this good stuff was going to happen to me, rather than me being aware that it is the consciousness that I adopt that determines what my experiences are. Okay. So the, a lot of people can take this teaching and create an idea that that’s almost like they’re, it’s a, they’re in a solipsistic universe there. They’re the only living being, and that can be a disservice, uh, in some ways with people I’ve worked at. In some ways it can, but some ways. So when, when you, when you’re looking at somebody and your only thought is that you have complete control and domination over everybody that you meet and everything, it can kind of be a disservice. And I, I don’t think maybe you can clarify that Neville was saying that, uh, was he saying that that we are just alone in this universe as solipsistic by ourselves and that everybody is just us or is there more to it? Do you understand what I’m trying? Right. I’m just trying to formulate an answer that is kind of a clear and concise. Right? So, in terms of our experience, we are very much alone, but of course we are not isolated. We are part of what he called a global community. And our work has an impact on others just as others have an impact on us. So there’s, he talks about us living in constant and everything being done in unity. And our responsibility is to ourselves, not to others in this, in this sense, right, are given inspiration by God in the form of desire. And it is our duty to fulfill them because in fulfilling them, we’re making sure that the whole thing is working right. But what tends to happen is that people start to try to police and manage what other people are doing without considering their own actions. So that’s the bit in which, that’s the way in which we are on our own, if you like, in terms of our responsibility to the global community, is to fulfill the desires that are, that we become aware of. Right? No. Yeah. The one of the most popular teachings is the everybody is you pushed out and so and, and like I said, there may be some misunderstandings with that because when I read some people have taken it to a level that it becomes, there’s an inconsistent and ends up attracting or creating things that are not within the lines of that teaching. So it’s always good to talk to an expert to explain what that means in a little bit more clarity. Okay, so let me just add a little bit more to what I was saying before then. So this, everybody is us pushed out, talks about our connectedness at a really fundamental level, but he says it’s important to remember that we are individualized. We’re not supposed to become a tyrant and to exercise tyranny over each other. And that’s what happens when people try to control and other people know we’re all given the same gifts and resources. We’re all in different packages because we’ve got different things to learn, right? And that’s what happens. You are a white male. I’m a black female. And being in that body, it’s going to expose you to certain experiences of life that are going to be different from mine, but it all works together. It’s all in concert. So it’s not my job to control what Brian does and it’s not Brian’s job to control what Kate does. We’re working in unison, but fundamentally we are all of the same substance of what he is saying is that with everybody is you pushed out, is that you’re no better than the next person. So give up judgment. That’s what he was talking about when he’s referring to where all the same. So people sort of think, Oh, because that person does this, has that lifestyle looks that way. I’m going to treat them like this according to my own prejudices and subjectivities. But he’s saying, no, you’re all made of the same stuff. And in the eyes of the creator, there is no difference between us. Take that and blame other people’s actions on their themselves like that person did that. How could I have made that happen? It doesn’t. Right? It’s absolutely insane. All that happens is when we are conscious of being something we are going to, when one is conscious of being something, everyone else is going to reflect that in one way or the other. Right? That’s what happens. But we are not responsible for each other’s behavior. We can never be. And so that is a, people are misunderstanding. At least that’s mine. So the next thing that’s very popular and I want to get clarity on from an expert is finding a specific person. I think that people have taken some, some, some offhand comments and things that never went through and said, well my ex from three years ago, I can, I can attract my ex from three years ago. And that specific person, I have control to have any specific person, you know, if whatever possible. Um, I remember one of his teachings where he mentions lot’s wife looking back and becoming salt, which is kind of a new idea that when we look back, when we look back to our past instead of looking forward, we become salt. And so I w I’ve, I’ve used that to explain if you, if you’re stuck on somebody from your past, you’re like lot’s wife, but I don’t know, there’s a lot of different references. What is your interpretation for somebody that is desperate to find that specific person and using Nebo Goddard’s teachings? Uh, what is the best way to interpret and utilize this in your, in your opinion? Right. So Neville says that when it comes to something like love, the worst thing that we can do is sort of fixate on a person because that might not be the right person for you, or it could be a wonderful person, but they’re only destined to live a short while longer. So you’ve invested all this and they leave you after a short amount of time and you’re in pain. It’s the thing he says to focus on and he uses his own experience is to focus on your blessed. When he met his wife, Belinda, he was married to another woman. He needed to get a divorce and get that all sorted out. He was married to a woman who I think worked with him in the theater world. Um, and he needed to get that divorce sorted out. But when he wanted to marry, he didn’t think about Belinda. He hadn’t met her yet. He thought about himself being in a blissful union with his right mate. And then he met her. When he met her, he knew that it was the right person. He received that confirmation within himself because it wasn’t something that he tried to make happen. And that’s the thing that is very important for us to do. If you have a desire that, okay, I want to be in a union with, in a relationship with someone, people start thinking, well, it could be this model of someone with money or you know, six foot five and you know, whatever, what girls, what, where boys one. Um, but you have no idea what journey that person is on, right? So if you say, how would I feel? This is some of the teachings where he says if until you reach a certain level of discipline, you can use where it takes the physicality completely out of it. How would I feel if I were this too late? As marriage, as the ambition is to be married right now and just leave it at you plant the seed and you leave it and what happens is that you meet someone in the most unexpected of of ways. Right. And somehow, you know, when I met my husband in an internet cafe of all places, I was just thinking about being happily married. I wasn’t really thinking about the kind of person I wanted to be with. It sort of seemed like all the boyfriends I’d had kind of a bit mad and it was fine. But when I met techy, I was with my brother in law and my nephew at the time, I just said, Oh my God, that guy is so cute. You know? It was just, it made no sense to me at all and I just couldn’t stop thinking about him. I don’t know how he did it. We suddenly found each other on Facebook and we’re communicating. So it was so awesome the way we came together. And it wasn’t something that I did to make happen because I couldn’t do anything to make it happen. I didn’t know where he lived. I didn’t even know his name, but he, he said that he came and sat next to me while I was in the computer and he took my name on Facebook. So yeah, so crazy soccer and I’m only joking. No, but it was so amazing how we met, but because I had focused on being in this, this for relationship in this visceral union, when I met him, I knew because I had that calm reassurance and we got married shortly after we became engaged. We were together for two years and then he asked me to marry him and we got married a few months after that. But it was just fantastic. And I’m so we’ve been together nearly 10 years and it just feels like yesterday and, and that’s because the, the, the one God that’s giving you the inspiration already knows who the person is going to be focused on. A specific person at that time, you might not have met him. You focused on the feeling and that feeling resonated and so that’s what I want everybody, I mean I’ve had coaching clients, I’ve had people come to me that have taken his teachings and said, I can, you know, I can track Demi more or I can attract a specific person because Neville said on, I don’t think that’s what he was trying to say, so people just saying that, but I just want to mention one more thing though, Brian. If you have a desire to be with Demi Moore for whatever, just let it happen. The thing that goes wrong is when we try to make the thing happen. If you receive a feeling within yourself that yeah, that’s persons for me. I’m not saying that that person is not for you. What goes wrong is when we try to make it so we take over from God and Neville said the results come about by violence and that means that things are going to go wrong. Not just fisticuffs of violence, but we’re going to go wrong. Absolutely. That’s exactly a beautiful way of saying it. Okay, perfect. Thank you. Um, something I’m fascinated by, I know this is a bizarre question. I think I was just reading out of this world is Neville saying there are parallel realities. He’s talking about the fourth dimension and other prostitutes, I don’t know, maybe, maybe not. I guess it’s not imagination is our ability to perceive multiple different realities I guess is what he’s trying to say that are possible. Um, so he, so the fourth dimension is the world that is not restricted or limited by our current physical limitation, right? So when you sleep, your real self does all the work. It leaves your body, it travels. He’s talking about all of that. It’s the realm of consciousness. The realm at which anything that is considered is an immediate fact. Physical fact in the, the con, the physical world. The third dimension, as we know in the human physical world, things are done in order. They are done linearly, they are done in a chronological way and we’re limited by what we can do. Our bodies age, people get sick, all sorts of things happen. There is a limitation in terms of finances or maybe education or your, your ability to move around. But outside of that, in your, in the world of imagination, anything is possible. He talks about someone who um, in terms of these parallel relax reality, somebody who is confined to a wheelchair in their imagination could walk and somehow they may find themselves walking if that’s the path they are to take. So he says that he’s talking about yes, infinite possibility if you like, outside of the realm of, of what is possible to us in our human body. So he’s talking about the two dimensions or the duality of man. So we have the side of us that has conscious thought and subconscious thought, but it’s confined to our physical bodies what we can and cannot do. And then the wealth in which we have nobody, we have no limitation. We are just part of this pulsating conscious energy. So something that you just said, the real self, when we go to sleep, are we ever in conflict? Is our real self imagining and attracting stuff outside of our realization? Are we seeing in countering things? In our reality, in our life that our real self is brought to us that we are not aware of. Do you understand what I’m saying? Sometimes we have things happen and we have maybe our, there’s our higher self or real self has a role in that even though I didn’t imagine that and it’s a part of my journey. Do you understand? I’m [inaudible] yeah, absolutely. So what, so what I was doing in some of my earlier interviews, I’ve been talking about this. So one of the things that’s happened to me throughout my journey is that my perception has flipped. So I don’t see my physical being Catherine as the one that’s in charge of doing the work. I see my conscious body, my subjective body as the one that’s doing all the work. So the real me is the one that has all the ideas or the feelings or the emotions and my physical body is just acting all of that out. What happens is that as people become more familiar with this idea and they begin to communicate with themselves more, they will start to see, um, that union get stronger and they won’t see. It won’t seem like such a dichotomous relationship. It really will seem, you’ll see the unity of yourself in that. So it is correct what you’ve said. What’s happening in our waking lives has never describes it is that all the work that we, the real we has done is being performed. And so when we go into the silence immediately we close our eyes. Brian, we’re actually seeing with our real eyes, even though it looks black with training, people will begin to see just as clearly as they are looking through their physical eyes. And so all when your in consciousness and you’re in that state, you have all of these adventures, you have all of these desires, these dreams, ambitions. You go out and you seek the things, whatever you feel, whatever you absorbed as a motive body, you then perform through your physical body. So sometimes it does look like, Oh my gosh, where it’s come from. But that only happens because a person is not in communication with their real self. That sense of kind of separation between the two. Right? So it’s interesting that Neville Goddard was an actor and so, and he talks about States. So this is easy in theory, but how do we create a specific feeling for a specific event? We have, we have a general range of emotions and feelings, but some of them meld together. You understand what I’m saying? Oh, I’m blissful when I’m at the pool, but I’m also blissful when I have $100,000 in my account. How do I, so from what he’s saying, we need to, the feeling is the secret, but there’s this specific feeling. So according to Neville, there’s like a million different feelings when sometimes in our own consciousness it feels like we have a hundred different feelings. How do we find a way to spin that specific feeling? Does that make the question, how should I train my body to have that specific feeling for that event that I want to manifest? So one of the first thing I think for somebody who’s new to this and coming to this and excited they, they, you need to learn to quiet your body. So you need to spend time getting still and getting quiet and never says the moment you close your physical eyes, you’ve shut out the objective world. When you first start this, and let’s say you’re lying flat on your back in a room that’s sort of dimly lit and you’re trying to relax, you’re breathing deeply, you’re going to be really, really twitchy because of all of these, this multitude of emotion that’s swirling around inside of you. So it’s going to be almost impossible, right? To pluck out a single feeling that corresponds to a single event. But what you can do is ask, how would I feel if, and you can be very specific about what comes after that ellipsis. So like how would I feel if I had $100,000 in my bank account? Right? So what will happen is when you ask that question, you’re talking to your God’s substance self. And the feeling associated with that will come up. Now it takes a little bit of practice. Some people get it quicker than others. I’m not saying it’s going to take someone months or years to master, but it takes a little bit of practice to actually trust that the moment you ask that question, whatever you feel is the feeling. And if you repeat that process over and over again, the feeling will become stronger. But what you need to do is really start by train yourself to become still and just become aware of your being with housed within your physical garment. I think there’s so much, especially in youth thought, um, teaching that focus on our physicality and sort of trying to get your physicality to do what you want it to do rather than actually focus on disciplining your conscious meaning, which is the more significant being in this process. So if you are unable to locate a particular feeling, then you can use the, how would I feel if question. Another thing to do is actually start isolating feelings that you do recognize. And that’s a great way to train yourself to just look onto singular feelings or feelings at least that are a little bit more condensed and formed than sort of just this soup, this cosmic soup that you’re swilling around in. So you could say, okay, I’m going to lock in on how I feel when I go to the movies or how I feel when I’m on a date or how I feel when I’m alone reading a book or drinking glass of wine or whatever it is. Right? And as you do that, you’re beginning to discipline to cherry pick, to isolate feelings. When you’ve done that, you can then start to, Neville said, feel after specific feelings. So in your quiet meditative state, you just begin to imagine that you are feeling something, even if the feeling is not really super distinct, just begin to imagine that you’re feeling it and see what happens. And I’m happy to go into more detail. I don’t know. I love it. Thank you. So feeling is an ambiguous and loaded word. The word feeling that it doesn’t meet what I feel in my, in my heart, my stomach. Does it mean to my skin? Does it mean that the way I’m breathing that the, the, the warmth on my face? How much, how much is feeling, how much am I missing when I say, okay, well I feel a little butterflies in my stomach, but there’s more to that feeling. So sometimes I worry I’m not being hope, I’m not being complete. I can, I can bring up a feeling of butterflies in my stomach or I’m not being complete theirs. And so I’m just getting a little bit of that feeling. Is there more texture that, is there more that I can do? This is my question. Makes sense. Yes, absolutely. And I think I sometimes forget, I’m so familiar with the terminology that I forget that um, people are, do, have these types of questions. So that’s, um, I’m grateful for you, uh, to you for asking this. So esoterically speaking or metaphysically speaking, feeling has a different meaning. It has different connotation to what we physically understand feeling to be. So feeling is everything that you’ve described in the human body, right? But as a totally feeling is an intelligence. It’s a language and it has a vocabulary. So it’s a lot more rigid and controlled than the way we experience and express it in our human bodies. So when we talk about feeling, we’re actually talking about specific vibrations that correspond to physical correlates. So it’s about, um, if you think about, I don’t know, plasma in a lab and sending an electrical current through that plasma to make it do something maybe to luminesce or to move in a certain way or to heat up or move fast or slow down. That’s what we’re talking about when we speak about feeling. We mean we’re sending a specific instruction to this substance and telling it what form to take. So that’s what Neville refers to when he’s talking about feeling, which is quite different to the way we experience a feelings either physically or emotionally in our human bodies. Okay. Do you need any more [inaudible] the clarification? Um, so one thing as you get into later books by Neville and he started to go away from the law a little bit and focus on the promise, the promise is a little bit vague to me. What is your interpretation of when Neville says the promise? I mean he’s saying that we, we, every time we die we come back until we reach a certain point. And it’s a promise. Is it, is it B moving past our incarnations? Is that what he’s, well, absolutely. So he’s talking about it as an inevitable Imperial event that happens to us. So as we’re cycling through, work, through, through life, learning all the lessons that we’re here to learn. So he describes the world as a schoolroom. You spoke about his Shakespearean language. He says that, you know, Shakespeare said all the world is a stage and we’re here playing our different parts, learning from our experiences and so on. The promise is what happens once all of that education is over, when you’ve learned everything that you’ve been sent to learn. And we have, um, it talks about this in the seven eyes of God that I mentioned before. So you go through the stages of your own individual journey. So he talks about when we’re just kind of just competitive and it’s every man for himself. And then we become slightly more sophisticated and we learn how to deceive each other and then we reached the level of Christ. When the sixth eye opened, we actually begin to care for each other. You and I may think we care for each other, but it actually is a lot deeper than that. You know, it’s kind of one would lay down their life for someone who hates them. Um, I don’t think we’re being asked to do that, but it’s talking about these levels, these levels that we go through as our soul evolves. And at the end of that, we are incorporated into the body of lard. So that all of the whole purpose of us being here in the first place, hot and tire understanding about creation itself is opened at this point. And then we’re sent back into the world to deliver a message to humankind. And after that we are resurrected. So he says, well, we’re cycling, we’re restored to life. We put on different garments, we have different experiences, but at the end of all of that, we are weak when we quit. Finally that is with the promise, um, takes place. Now, once we are in those kind of end stages, if you like certain different events take place, which are um, uh, sequence of spiritual events that confirm that one is about to exit finally. But it’s very important that he said you must put first things first. We’re not going to attain to the promise until we’ve learned everything we need to learn here, right? So it’s really important that we put all of our energy into learning how to fulfill our desires through the conscious use of imagination. That is what is important because the promise will take care of itself. I don’t think it’s something that anyone should get anxious about it. Some people become aware about it, people come aware of it rather because Neville says they’re on the verge of some change, some transformation. And we all reached this point where on a second life isn’t what I thought it was, you know, five years ago, five months ago, there’s more to it. My re interactions with the rest of the human race is different. My outlook on life is different. Why is that? And as we begin to inquire, we begin to receive more information and it just gets more and more exciting and beautiful and wonderful. Yeah. Well one thing I think of people make a mistake with, with nibble is they will try it. It’s like they’re at the buffet and they’ll try to eat too much. They’ll try to imagine too many things at once. So I wanted to get your opinion about this. I think that he really is saying focus on one thing and really bring it about for a long period of time. What is your interpretation of that? And that’s absolutely right. It’s really important. If you think about, um, if somebody wants to ride, what’s that thing they do? The tour de France or whatever the cycling thing. You’ve got to learn to ride a bike first, second year. Man, if he couldn’t ride a bicycle, he said, I’m going to, I’m heading off to going compete with those pros in the tour de France. You’re not going to get very far, but once you learn to ride a bicycle, then the world’s your limit. You can go mountain biking, dirt biking. You can do all sorts of weird and wonderful things, but you have to learn to ride the bike first. And this is what he’s saying about disability. If you focus on one thing, your confidence is going to grow. You’re going to build within yourself a core strength, which then will enable you to use this ability in any way that you choose. But you have to make sure that you meet the requirements, you understand what’s required of you, and that you’re able to deliver on those requirements. And this is what happens. I get countless emails. I’ve got some, I’ve got, I promise to answer tonight and people saying it hasn’t worked or this hasn’t worked. And they said, and when I pick through and I’m able to kind of deconstruct what they’ve complained about to me, I say, you’re not fully understanding what’s being asked of you here. So this isn’t about, if I wish hard enough, this thing is going to happen. For me, it’s about understanding what is meant by things like feeling what, what is feeling, what is meant by attention, what is meant by a commitment, prayer, all of these sorts of terms. Maybe I should write a glossary of terms and just hand out to people so they understand that there are significant differences. When I started to get revelation and understand the language, I went back and read some of the early Naval and the techniques that seems so straightforward were a little bit more detailed than, than they first appear to be. And so it’s about a willingness to actually let go of what you’re feeling, one feeling and replace it with another so people think they can force something to happen. And I learned all sorts of analogies that I share with people. For example, if you’re holding something in your hand, Oh, let’s say I’m holding my phone and saying, I really want a phone. I really want to phone. People don’t realize when they’re doing that energetically, if you’ve already got something, you can’t force yourself to have that thing you already have. It’s about accepting, looking down and saying, Oh wow, I’ve got a phone in my hand. This thing is, even if you don’t physically see it. So it’s really, there’s, there are nuances to the technique and it, they never says they’re, but they’re not easy. They take dedication and they take careful study and practice and he said, you’re not going to get it overnight. He said, think about it as um, like somebody learning to be someone on a journey to becoming a concert pianist. It start with the, the rudiments of musical theory and they learn the scales and they learn and they get their finger techniques going and the floating elbow, I’m trying to remember when my piano lessons, they get all of that, but, but you have to practice every day. If you don’t practice, you’re not going to be able to do what you, and he’s saying, yes you should every day it’s harder than the Plowman share as he says. It’s hard. It’s, you don’t go into it easy that, that even though it’s not physically hard, there is some effort that’s required that you put into this. And so people start demanding immediate results after they’ve meditated one time or visualized or it doesn’t work like that. Right. Absolutely. Um, so what are the, in your experience after you’ve started to teach this common mistakes, are those common mistakes that people make? Um, I think for me that the most common is this thing called visualization that people get from new thought philosophy. I think so Neville said something really wonderful. He said, don’t view, don’t visualize yourself doing something which is like being in a movie theater. And watching yourself on screen. Imagine yourself, the actor in the scene, and this is where using your subjective census comes in. So if you think about our real selves being a body, just like the body we have, except that it has no limits based on it, it is able to achieve anything he said, one of the first things we need to do, if I can digress for a moment, is first believes that anything is possible to this body of imagination, right? So that’s the the first thing. And a lot of people, Brian don’t believe that. So if you say, okay, I am aware that I can’t do so many things in this body, that’s fine, but you have to, he said the, it is imperative that you absolutely believe that with imagination all things are possible. And then you recognize that you have the five senses that you can employ in that conscious body just as you have in the physical. So remember the physical body is just an an acting out an out-picturing if you like, of what you can do with your consciousness. Except that there are, there are no limits. So when you’re imagining yourself in a scene that confirmed something is true. And maybe I want to be, I don’t know, an actress or something like that, I’m in a movie, I’m gonna feel stuff, feel my co-actors, I don’t know if that’s the word. I’ll smell stuff, I’ll smell the environment. I might taste food, I may perceive fragrances, whatever it might be. You must experience what you are desiring with your subjective body to a certain degree of intensity before it can become a physical reality, right? But people are sort of thinking, sort of wishing it into being. Somebody said to me, I really, really, really wanted this job that I thought and I thought about it and I did everything you said. I said, you kind of done everything I said, cause you don’t have the joke, right? So the important thing is you have the job. Even if you’re getting up and going to another job, when you, when you’re on the train or in your car, you, even though you, your outward body is going to company a, your conscious body is going to company B. And if you are able to persuade yourself that you are really in the other place, your physical body’s going to follow. Right? Great thing about your book is that you have these wonderful exercises. You’ve distilled a lot of these teachings. So I, you know, I’m going to tell anybody, if you’re, if you’re wanting to learn about Neville to read your book and you have these wonderful exercises, there’s so many that we could go over. What is your favorite exercise of nibbles? Let’s let me start with what would be your favorite exercise that people may not have heard of because there’s so many that you know, you see references. Is there a kind of a, a rare exercise that’s one of your favorites that, that, that you, that Neville suggested that you use? Um, I, one of my favorites is the magic mirror because it’s so easy. And, um, I don’t know how many people are familiar with that or not. People seem to get excited when I describe it. Um, and I talk about it. So if you think about the fact every single day we get up, we brush our teeth, we shall, we do our hair and makeup or whatever, we get dressed, we use mirror, right? And we looked into a mirror and so many people are unaware of the fact that when we are looking at ourselves in the mirror, Brian, we’re judging, judging ourselves from head to toe. And it’s subtle. And especially if you’re getting pretty quickly, you’re about to head out to work. You’re judging, Oh God, look at that. The weight, the look, the skin, the dah, dah, dah. People are just complaining. People aren’t aware about how much they complain about themselves. And if you have time, I would say to someone to say to an individual, maybe do it on a day where you’re not rushing off somewhere just to look in the mirror and just become aware of how much you’re complaining. That’s just something just to get you into the right frame of mind. Okay, this is happening. So this exercise, I call it magic mirror, and let me give you some background to this technique. It’s beautiful. It was a man who had facial tumors that used this technique that never described. You may be familiar with this from his teachings. And even though he had those tumors and these disfigurement of his face, all these unsightly lumps and bumps, he shaved every day as though his face was perfectly smooth. I mean, if we can think about that for a moment, that really takes a lot of discipline to do. Um, I used magic mirror when I need to lose weight and I don’t want to give up stuff I eat. So when I was younger, I used to, I used to model, right? So I couldn’t give up food, but I can think myself slim. And, and for some people it seems odd until you try it. So this is what’s so exciting about magic mirror is when you’re looking into the mirror, you can do two things. You can close your eyes or you can use soft focus. Now soft focus is when you’re looking at something, but not really looking at it. So you’re looking at in the mirror, but beyond the reflection, through the mirror, and then what you can then do is reflect back at different image to yourself. I don’t know if you’re familiar with soft focus. Oh yeah, that, yeah, I love it. Yeah, that makes sense. If you feel confident enough, you soft focus. If you feel that no, what you’re looking at is not what you want to see. Close your eyes and just imagine that the person getting dressed in front of that mirror is the person you want to be. That you can look, you can focus on something physical or a character, character, character trait. Either it’s up to you. It must be one thing. So I used it to clear up my acne when a few years ago I had terrible acne and now people can’t believe my skin. People don’t believe I don’t wear makeup. It works. This is how excited I am about this, and you just, what you want to do is take some deep breaths, relax and focus on this thing that you are looking at, this person that you want to be. Now if it helps, you can use statements like, Oh my God, I can’t believe how, whatever gorgeous you are, how clear your skin is. Just say that you could do that for one to two minutes. This is how awesome this is, but you do it every single day without fail. Don’t treat it like a chore or something you have to do and it’s very important when you’re taking your your breath in and out. If you feel yourself tightening up, don’t do it at that moment. It’s really important that you’re loose, that you feel good about it and a good sign is that if you feel a tickle above your solar plexus leading right up to your epiglottitis, that point at the back of your throat, then you’re in the right frame of mind is this thing must excite you. After you’ve spent your one to two minutes praising yourself, talking about how awesome you are, you want to allow a gentle smile to be on your face. You breathe in and out with your eyes closed or in soft focus and then you go about your day. I guarantee after just a few days of doing this, people are going to start to see a difference. I guarantee you I’m going to do it right afterwards. You got me all excited. So, Oh a powerful, you’re not doing anything physical. And what I really love about this technique is that it’s one of the techniques that really begins to establish a connection between your conscious self and your outer body. Right? And that’s what I’ve really gone for in the book. Now people said, Oh, the book isn’t long. One of my favorite novel books is your faith is your fortune. Anyone who has that book knows it’s pretty thin, but it’s so impactful. And it was the inspiration for the way I wanted to this book. I wanted it to be impactful, complete guide, absolutely everything you need to, I’m teaching you to ride the bike with this. And then when you’ve learned to ride the bike, go wherever you want, take your bike anywhere you want. That’s what I, my aim was. My ambition was. So these exercises are all about really establishing that connection. They build on each other and they get increasingly more challenging as the book progresses. But by the time you’ve got, you spent some time with one and you’ve moved on to the next, you’re ready for that next one. So it’s not going to feel like such an effort for you. No, no. It’s so many good exercises. I’ve used it. I’ve met a Noya, the psychosexual act. I’m just telling by the book go out right now and by the book, these exercises resonate. They’re powerful and thank you because a lot of people don’t have time to read thousands of pages of, of Nevilles lectures. They can just get your book and they can, it’s a good starting place. The once they’re riding the bike, they can go back to those lectures and that’s why it’s, I’m so grateful to have you on. So since you wrote the book, have you had any more realizations or discoveries? It’s ongoing, especially with Neville, it’s ongoing. Have you had any new realizations that you’d like to share? I mean, absolutely. I mean, I, I’ve, with my second book, which I’ve been working on for ages, I’ve written it, I’ve pulled it apart and pulled it apart. Um, I think really what I would love to do, what I am doing with my second book is actually bringing in more of the glossary of terms. I think I’ve taken it for granted that people understand what every element of, of the exercises mean. So it’s, um, when we talk about things like feeling, we’re actually talking about a language. So when we are learning to identify our feelings, it’s literally like learning vocabulary of a language. And this is something that’s really important to know when we’re talking about, um, we don’t do visualization in this metaphysical world. We are the actor in the scene. We’re not watching the actor perform. We are the actor in the scene. So we’re experiencing with our subjective senses. Um, things like when you’ve closed your eyes, people don’t know this. Even though you might see black to begin with, you’re actually looking through your eyes of consciousness. Once your physical eyes are shut instantly, you shut out the objective world and you can begin to do whatever you want in consciousness. So these are the little things that I think are really important to know that are going to transform people’s experiences with this work. It’s not to say that as you said, the book is a great starting point and I do answer questions on Facebook. I allow people to write to me and I go into things like the terminology a bit more because I do realize that that something that people need as well. So I did feel that inspiration that I really need to get into a bit more detail about what never means when he says certain things because I think that will really clear up a lot of the miscommunication that’s going on. Right. Do you know, looking back when he was giving these messages, the amazing thing is this is all like forties or 50s that he’s saying this stuff on the radio. If you know, if he faced, because he’s such a good, he’s like a master of law of attraction. He’s probably not going to mention it or focus on it. What was he facing? Opposition was their protest against Nebel where people, I mean that would be such a natural thing to happen with his message. Do you know if you face that he, he spoke about it and if you’re familiar with this, but that people would sometimes get violent. He didn’t really, to my knowledge speak about great protests or people want him to come off air. I think there was a really awesome article, I think it was in the new Yorker about someone who attended agenda said, attended one of his lectures and said that I think because he didn’t have the audience says of someone like Emmet Fox that he didn’t draw that kind of attention to himself. He didn’t have those massive crowds. I don’t know that. Maybe it was, cause he was in California anyway. Well he did a lot of work in New York as well. He traveled around, he was in Milwaukee and different places. Um, yes he wasn’t LA and maybe people are just much more chill. At least he talks about how his color was on, you know, we’d go into a restaurant in New York and they tell us how it was different in LA, but, right. But I just always wondered, I mean, even now, just back then, that, um, I’m surprised that he didn’t encounter as much opposition as you would’ve thought. I think w from what I understand, it’s not that he didn’t, he just really knew how to discount it. And he said that his face, his critics became his most dedicated students. Pete, his criticism, the criticism of him then was that he was a lunatic. That was really what people said of him in those days. Oh, the mad mystic. He had a name. He was known as the mat listicle, I think 38th street or something like that. He had one of these names that people were calling him, but Neville said he knows why they’re doing it. Maybe it made no difference. And, and, and that’s something I see in myself saying, Oh my God, look, people say stuff. You know, I have to share the story of my book came out. Um, someone wrote to me, um, I can’t remember what he called himself. It was, he was a white separatist, right? I’m talking to this guy and he was like, Oh, don’t you dare tell anyone that I wrote to you. And I thought, why would I tell you on that? You wrote to me, tell me what’s your question? And he was absolutely stunned that I was relating to him. And I’m not saying this to boast, I’m just saying that I get it. We’re all going through something. We’re all learning something. And Neville says that many of us don’t realize that we act under compulsion. We’re cost into different roles for learning. And this is when he said, everyone is, you pushed out, meaning that there is no difference between myself and that young man. And, and that’s what I told him, you are me. I’m used. So it doesn’t matter. Whatever you do to me, you’re doing to yourself. Whatever I do to you, I’m doing to myself. So I choose to treat you, to receive you with love and to treat you with love. And it was very, very cool. I heard from him about four months ago after, you know, he wanted to tell me how he was getting on in this new job. So you know, we get so cool top in what we’re doing, but now if we just focus on the fact that we’re learning or we’re heading in one direction, it just becomes really, really awesome. And that’s not to make light of the experiences that people have. Not at all. I’m completely empathetic to the challenges and frustrations we all face. I face my own, but it’s not to lose sight of, of what’s important and that’s what I really took from level when he talks about people who didn’t like him, it was like, yeah, yeah, I love that. And it’s a, it’s the biggest from the everyone is you pushed out realization for me is I, everybody I look at in the past I would say I would find disgust or anger or hate with how could they be like that and now there’s a part of me that says I’m that person and I can understand. I start to understand everybody, even whatever it is there I could see, I guess I could see myself doing that if I was under that particular script. Exactly. Once you have that, it’s, it’s amazing. You’re gonna relate to everybody differently because everybody, even the worst person. I understand. I understand. And then we’ll said once we reached that, sorry to cut you, that reach that realization. He says, you forgive anyone for everything they’ve ever done and you in turn receive forgiveness for anything you’ve ever done. And I think what an incredible way to be. I know how I want to use the time I’ve been allocated. I don’t want to use it kind of getting all tied up in knots. And if I can help someone to feel better about themselves, yeah, we’re going to do it. That’s what I’m on. Well, this has been such a joy and I’ve learned so much and so everybody needs to run, not walk to get infinite possibility by Kate jaggedy infinite possibility. How do use the ideas of Neville garter to create the life you want? It’s a wonderful synthesis of his ideas. It’s a great starting point to learn and some great exercises. Thank you and welcome to the [inaudible] reality revolution. I hope to have you on again, as we go deeper on some of these subjects and if I have further questions, I will definitely be reaching out. It’s been an absolute delight to speak to you, Brian. Thank you so much, Kate.